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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I guess i will offer my opinion as far as conservation, I'm sure all won't agree but that is fine I'm open to fair banter and critisizm.
1. 8 grilse over a 7 month season or a catch and release when the majority of salmon are weak and big in the spring is rediculous when you can release 10 then reduced to 4 as the salmo are in fine fourm to give you a fight ! I say salmon are salmon 3 tags for the keepers of fish 2 blue for grilse and a red for a salmon use the outfitters as they do with weigh in staions for deer I'm sure there are a few outfitters that would love the traffic and would be wise to what was going on their steach
 

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I guess i will offer my opinion as far as conservation, I'm sure all won't agree but that is fine I'm open to fair banter and critisizm.
1. 8 grilse over a 7 month season or a catch and release when the majority of salmon are weak and big in the spring is rediculous when you can release 10 then reduced to 4 as the salmo are in fine fourm to give you a fight ! I say salmon are salmon 3 tags for the keepers of fish 2 blue for grilse and a red for a salmon use the outfitters as they do with weigh in staions for deer I'm sure there are a few outfitters that would love the traffic and would be wise to what was going on their steach
In this day and age with salmon #s on the decline there is no justification for killing wild atlantic salmon and to propose that we start killing MSW fish is just idiotic??? All Atlantic Salmon fishing should be C&R only!!! Those big MSW fish are the spawners and if you start taking them out of the system we are doomed!! Spring salmon actually fair better than summer run fish for rceovery after being caught and released....look up the science and pull your head out of your A$$
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
In this day and age with salmon #s on the decline there is no justification for killing wild atlantic salmon and to propose that we start killing MSW fish is just idiotic??? All Atlantic Salmon fishing should be C&R only!!! Those big MSW fish are the spawners and if you start taking them out of the system we are doomed!! Spring salmon actually fair better than summer run fish for rceovery after being caught and released....look up the science and pull your head out of your A$$
I'll keep my head in my own A$$, much rather hear my own **** then be told by someone what I already know ! But thanks for being polite
 

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In this day and age with salmon #s on the decline there is no justification for killing wild atlantic salmon and to propose that we start killing MSW fish is just idiotic??? All Atlantic Salmon fishing should be C&R only!!! Those big MSW fish are the spawners and if you start taking them out of the system we are doomed!! Spring salmon actually fair better than summer run fish for rceovery after being caught and released....look up the science and pull your head out of your A$$
I kind of lost a little respect for you after seeing this post Lahaves. The gentleman you cussed out was just stating his opinion. To bring people to your point of view you may need to respect their opinion first even if you think it's wrong, just sayin'.
 

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LaHave is right - there is no scenario where we should be killing MSW fish. Although I haven't kept a grilse in a couple of years - I would still like to be able to keep one should I choose, I just think we should cut WAY back on the tags - like in half.

As far as only being able to release 4 fish in summer - the occasions where that happens are few and far between, and you should probably just be thankful you've had such a good day and have a beer or two and needle your buddies while they fish.

As LaHave said, the colder water in spring makes fish release survival much higher, plus it is easy to catch a bunch of them - therefore the higher release limit in spring.

So, I like the three tags Zamboni - but keeping those big spawners we need so desperately is stupid.

What I'd like to know is how come we haven't heard about variation orders about the NW/LSW that would make the upper strethes C&R like we did last year? One year and now everything is hunky dory?
 

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Just a bit of info on the Northwest from what I have been told from a few MSA members. They have no idea what amount of smolts are coming from the different rivers such as the Nothwest, Sevogle and Little Southwest Miramichi. Since they had no data other then smolt counts way down river below the Sevogle and Little Southwest they decided to put in smolt wheel at Trout Brook on the Northwest.

I heard that DFO will not close the rivers to catch and release this year and so far from what I have seen they don't seem to be too worried either considering the crazy amount of gill nets and box nets in at Sunny Corner. The other nets you don't see way up river at the other location where the net.

As the water gets lower the fish will all be netted. Only high water will save the fish with nets in the water.

It's only a matter of years before it will be all shut down.

I don't think there is any agreement in place this year with the natives. I say the government should just pay them the $500 000 and put it catch and release every year otherwise it will be closed to salmon angling within 10 years.
 

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I kind of lost a little respect for you after seeing this post Lahaves. The gentleman you cussed out was just stating his opinion. To bring people to your point of view you may need to respect their opinion first even if you think it's wrong, just sayin'.
Sorry you feel that way wannafish I didn't mean to belittle ZG just wanted him to think about what he was saying....I've been involved with salmon conservation for a long long time and for someone to suggest that we should start killing and tagging MSW fish gets my blood boiling and hackles up. We as salmon fishermen are our worst enemies we love to fish for thes wonderful creatures but take no (or very little) responsibility for thier conservation...we figure that they will just alweays be there for us to take!! NB residents don't have to look very far to disprove these thoughts ...look south to Maine and east to NS the salmon angling and salmon are all but gone here!! My appologies for a poor choice of words but not for my beliefs.

Bonasa_U
I wouldn't expect any variation orders this year as your right the stocks must have made a remarkable recovery over the #s from last year .....or maybe it was the hoard of meat mongers protesting to DNR/DFO and setting petitions out in every local business in a 200 mile radius because they couldn't go to these beautiful water and kill fish
 

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GM
It doesn't matter how much the Gov pays the natives they will still do what they want ite their treaty right and those rights are for individual native not bands so even if a band signs an agreement the individual does not have to follow it if he chooses not to. Closing it down to C&R has no effect on Native harvest because they are a higher proirity than sportfishing under the constitution and Charter of Rights....the only way the natives cannot fish is if the rivers are shut down totally for conservation reasons...Conservation trumps Native rights. Like I say I've been involved with salmon issues and orgs for the better part of my life and if I learned one thing from it all its CONTROL THE ISSUES YOU CAN CONTROL...the native issues are not one we can control...so forget about it...I know I know because I feel the same way whenever it is brought up!! Yah just gotta suck back and reload and realize its beyond your control so get involved with other issues and fight like heck to get things done that you can not fight and fight and fight for things that you nor anyone else will ever change.....sad but true
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Sorry you feel that way wannafish I didn't mean to belittle ZG just wanted him to think about what he was saying....I've been involved with salmon conservation for a long long time and for someone to suggest that we should start killing and tagging MSW fish gets my blood boiling and hackles up. We as salmon fishermen are our worst enemies we love to fish for thes wonderful creatures but take no (or very little) responsibility for thier conservation...we figure that they will just alweays be there for us to take!! NB residents don't have to look very far to disprove these thoughts ...look south to Maine and east to NS the salmon angling and salmon are all but gone here!! My appologies for a poor choice of words but not for my beliefs.

Bonasa_U
I wouldn't expect any variation orders this year as your right the stocks must have made a remarkable recovery over the #s from last year .....or maybe it was the hoard of meat mongers protesting to DNR/DFO and setting petitions out in every local business in a 200 mile radius because they couldn't go to these beautiful water and kill fish
I don't feel bad at all my values towards the atlantic salmon are as true as yours, But I came to the conclusion that making it total C&R is impossible for many reasons. But my main reason for saying to kill a fish let the "keepers" pay hefty for that red tag put that $$ directly back into consevation.. and cut those blue tags way back !! You said yourself that with the changes last year on the crown reserves might of changed alot of minds. Well yes it did it drove those fishermen to other rivers where they could keep a fish. Is it right ? do things need to be fixed ? We all have opinions and different thoughts as to what we could do. My thought is Limit tags allow a salmon at a healty cost but the option not to purchase the red tag. And if you do purchase a red tag you have to have your catch registered.
 

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I don't feel bad at all my values towards the atlantic salmon are as true as yours, But I came to the conclusion that making it total C&R is impossible for many reasons. But my main reason for saying to kill a fish let the "keepers" pay hefty for that red tag put that $$ directly back into consevation.. and cut those blue tags way back !! You said yourself that with the changes last year on the crown reserves might of changed alot of minds. Well yes it did it drove those fishermen to other rivers where they could keep a fish. Is it right ? do things need to be fixed ? We all have opinions and different thoughts as to what we could do. My thought is Limit tags allow a salmon at a healty cost but the option not to purchase the red tag. And if you do purchase a red tag you have to have your catch registered.
ZG you know as well as I do that the $$$ would just go into general coffer and never a cent of it spent on conservation....the best conservation too we have at this point is to allow the big MSW spawners to go up river and breed/spawn to propose killing these fish as was done in he past is not an action that should be taken!! But hey thats just me and I don't kill any salmon I buy a C&R license every year because that is me doing my little part to save the species ...... others will do as the please.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
ZG you know as well as I do that the $$$ would just go into general coffer and never a cent of it spent on conservation....the best conservation too we have at this point is to allow the big MSW spawners to go up river and breed/spawn to propose killing these fish as was done in he past is not an action that should be taken!! But hey thats just me and I don't kill any salmon I buy a C&R license every year because that is me doing my little part to save the species ...... others will do as the please.
Very true Sir but put the onus on a fisherman that lives by the law! By saying no " Kill " while others are illegally doing it or legally. is not fair I might as well buy a trout licence jump in the CHI, and say no sir i'm fishing trout damn well knowing I'm there to catch a salmon. oh wait we have that. but you have to pay more for the words C&R. Not to be an A$$ but legally you can do that I have done my home work and the system today needs help not the average joe trying to enjoy a day on the river ! I hope you see my point don't have to agree just stating the fact. Cheers and in no way am i trying to be in an argument just want to give my opinion the way I see it. And yes I keep my 1st grilse, the rest is all release.
 

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Oh I see your point and yes the system is flawed....they are shutting rivers down in NS right now because people are "trout" fishing salmon rivers in the summer that have no season......people are greedy and figure it is thier right to be able to angle for salmon with no regard for the fish themselves. NB still has fairly decent #s but they are way down from what they were even 25 years ago when I started fishing the 'chi....now with Greenland ready to not resign the agreement they have to keep their offshore fishermen from slaughtering wild Atlantics whats left of stocks don't stand a chance!! That is one of the main reasons why the numbers have apeared to be decent in the last few years ...because they aren't being harvested at sea off Greenland where they all migrate to when the leave the rivers. Imagine now how many metric tons of fish a fleet of trawlers can harvest?? I would guess, in theory, that if they got into the right pod of fish they could whipe out an entire run for an individual river like the Renous or LSW. IMO wild atlantic salmon are just to valuable to be caught only once....I grew up in a salmon fishing community that now has no salmon in its river...the economic impact on small communities is devastating when the fish just aren't there anymore. So yes I see your point..when the fish are gone "the average joe" won't have the opportunity to enjoy a day on the river.. for me the fishing is all about the time on the water not about catching fish, I know some that get up at 2 or 3 in the morning, drive 3 hours fish for 15 minutes, bonk thier fish then drive that 3 hours back home saying they had a great day on the water.....I just have to shake my head ...LOL... I respect it but don't agree.
 

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Lahave - If the nets are not removed from the river then it's only a matter of time and the salmon numbers will be so low on the Sevogle, Little southwest and Northwest that they will shut it down. But it will be too little too late. I understand we need to fight for what we can make changes with but it's all useless in the end if the gill nets are not removed for good.

Gill nets are the main reason locally on the rivers that need to be taken out of the water forever. Doing whatever we can for offshore fishing in Greenland is useless to the rivers in question above Sunny Corner.

I agree totally that 8 tags is way too much. I also can't understand how DFO and the rest of our government are letting natives net for ceremonial purposes and a food resource. With the amount of netting going on at Sunny Corner and above the entire population of Natives would be eating a 5 pound salmon a day! Nobody eats that much F.F.S. If some natives really cared about the salmon numbers then they would just put in a few box nets and do selective fishing while throwing back the large ones and keeping a few male grilse for themselves. But they have no confidence in our government as we do and don't believe anything the DFO says so they do whatever they want. Natives are not conservationist like we sportsman are. The word conservation doesn't mean anything to some natives. There are no rules to follow. Some do whatever they want. Those same individuals are selling the salmon and could care less about the species. If the band agrees to only box netting after some negotiations and some money handed over every year then the natives not complying with the agreement should be fined and charged as regular tax paying citizens do when they do something dumb!

And if some on here think that is racist then Bite me Arse! Call me racist!
 

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GM

I understand where you are coming from and agree with you 500% and no its not racist IMO...BUT.....your beating your head against the wall over and over again about an issue that nothing can be done about until the Atlantic salmon in NB are declared endangered and then nobody gets to fish for them!! The DFO and the Federal Government have no power or athority to overrule the Treaty Rights of natives other than for conservation reasons!!! You know well and fine that they aren't going to just give up those rights and sign another agreement saying they are null and void!! So most anglers use this as a crutch and say "Well if they are going to continue to kill them so am I !!!!" and IMO 2 wrongs don't make a right and when they are all gone everyone losses!! Most of the time now when I get into discussions with local about this matter I just end up saying "Well go ahead kill them all, as many as you can, every last one of them!!" Most just don't get that there is not an endless supply of wild Atlantic salmon or just don't care...Native, Angler, Greenland Trawlers, Governments......
 

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Fishinnut,

It's not the fishermen causing the decline in salmon. It's the netting taking place. If you think the natives are going to stop at a hundred salmon then you are out of touch with reality. They would have pulled the nets a week or 2 ago if that were the case. I guarantee you that if all the fly fishermen fishing the little southwest, sevogle and northwest decided to practise full catch and release the decline would still happen. It's like saying close deer hunting down and the deer will make a comeback. Yeah right!

I agree 8 tags is too much but go to the root cause of the issue and start from there.
 

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Hi LaHaves...Your words, "ZG you know as well as I do that the $$$ would just go into general coffer and never a cent of it spent on conservation....the best conservation too we have at this point is to allow the big MSW spawners to go up river and breed/spawn to propose killing these fish as was done in he past is not an action that should be taken!! But hey thats just me and I don't kill any salmon I buy a C&R license every year because that is me doing my little part to save the species ...... others will do as the please."

I thought about the catch and release license this year and it's the same price as a retainning one. Then, it was brought to my attention that it is best to purchase the rettention license in case a grilse isn't going to make it's release...No sence on just letting it float away right? How guilty would you feel releasing a grilse or a salmon of that matter and it just floating away belly up and you not being able to keep it? I'd feel terrible...
 
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