[karavanman]

Hello All,

I went tubing today on the LSW to beat the heat. However it was not a very plesent site!

I seen 4 large salmon dead on my down the river! All of them had DFO tags on them! So either the tags are effecting their lifestyle or whoever is putting them on is not releasing them correctly. The tagging method alows dfo to track the fish throughout their life. Some by fisherman catching the fish and reporting the tag was on, and some of the fish actually have a rice size gps locator in their belly to track them through their life.

I've never agreed with these systems and probably never will. To me we know enough abou these beautiful fish already that we can let them do their own thing now.

Answer the poll attached to this topic and lets see what everyone thinks about these tags.

Thanks

 

[SalmonNut]

The fish are dying from the heat not the tagging. The water is over 80 degrees. The fish can't survive unless near spring fed areas.

Most grilse are not tagged that go through the counting fence but the large salmon are.

 

[Dragon]

They tell us to wet our hands before handling fish so as not to kill them. They than tag them and remove some of their fins to mark them for other reasons. Unless I am mistaken taking a fish's fin is the same as removing one off our toes or fingers. We have extras but it sure is nice to have them all.

They use to do a marking technique with lobsters called "v-notching". You get a lobster with spawn on it then you cut a "v-notch" into the end of its tail. This was great until they did it for a few yrs and finally realized they were killing the lobster by breaking their shell and they were getting infected.

It isn't about preserving the fishery it is about getting more tax dollars and making more jobs.

 

[karavanman]

I agree with both of you but do beleive there is a point of going too far into studies and i think they are almost there! Good input guys keep it comin and try not to turn it into a boxing match

 

[Jay (Fisherpunk)]

The st john river chapter of Muskies canada has been tagging muskies with spaghetti tags for a few years now. havent heard any negative reports about the tags affecting the fish. maybe DFO should try that.

i'm sure the tags they use are not directly killing fish though. most likely due to heat, or maybe improper handling/too much time out of the water?

 

[karavanman]

Hey Jay,

That's what i'm thinking, they probably had the thing out of water for too long or had a new guy on the job that didnt handle the fish quite well. I just couldnt get over the fact that all four fish had tags.

Thanks for the post

 

[delete]

The st john river chapter of Muskies canada has been tagging muskies with spaghetti tags for a few years now. havent heard any negative reports about the tags affecting the fish. maybe DFO should try that.

i'm sure the tags they use are not directly killing fish though. most likely due to heat, or maybe improper handling/too much time out of the water?

I had warned the musky guys about tagging and negatively affecting their musky's health based on what I have seen with sturgeon that are tagged. All tagged sturgeon I've seen had open sores at the tagging area and appeared to have less weight than other sturgeon of the same length. However, my warning went ignored and I do believe they recaught tagged musky that also had open sores. I would imagine these infections could lead to increased liklihood of mortality. A sturgeon has sharklike skin and if it effects such a robust fish, what would it do to a thin skinned slimy musky? Even worse for a salmon I'd think.

 

[SalmonNut]

Have any of you guys actually seen a tagged salmon?? I have caught a few and my buddy also has caught salmon in the spring with tags. I had a grilse one time hooked in July and about 2 feet from shore and could see the tag on the dorsal fin. Never any open sores at all.

I have never seen any part of a fin removed on tagged salmon. I would like to see what you mean by that. I don't think that is common practise on the Miramichi. I remember reading about stocked par having the adpose fin (fin next to the tail) cut off prior to releasing. I often will look for this characteristic when I hook par while fly fishing. Never came across one yet.

IT's the water temperatures that are killing the fish. Why is that so hard to believe?

 

[karavanman]

SalmonNut - I know the tags are very small and yes I have seen them (four of them actually

)but you never know what can effect a fish. And yes the warm water temperature probably is a factor here.

 

[zamboni-guy]

I could be wrong .. but I thought that the clipping of fins were only for stocked brookies ?? As far as the tags anything that disrupts the natrual enviroment will cause some stress but a mass killing I don't think. On a lighter side is it cheaper to buy a salmon licence or go tubing ? with the C&R laws I can just jump on a tube float down a river and look at all the salmon.

 

[karavanman]

That's the attitude!

Tubing is much cheaper than a license. It's only 10$. Its a real good time if you can get a couple people together. They can even give you a second tube for your "beverages". Its not a a good water temp for the fish but for tubing its great.

As for the clipping of the fins i'm not too educated on it other than what i heard people say on here and just from talking to people on rivers and what not.

 

[Bigbass]

I did fisheries work for a couple of summers. We would never clip the fin of an adult fish - too much chance of hurting the fish. I have seen them "marked" however - like with a hole punch through the dorsal fin. If you see a grilse missing an adipose fin, it was probably a stocked fish. When I was doing it, we clipped the adipose off all of the fry that we raised to stock. I think adipose clipping is common with most stocking programs - but I can't tell you that for sure since it could depend on who is in charge.

 

[Tippet]

I could be wrong .. but I thought that the clipping of fins were only for stocked brookies ?? As far as the tags anything that disrupts the natrual enviroment will cause some stress but a mass killing I don't think. On a lighter side is it cheaper to buy a salmon licence or go tubing ? with the C&R laws I can just jump on a tube float down a river and look at all the salmon.

To each their own zamboni-guy. I will continue to C&R before and after the C&R regulations are lifted (if they are lifted). I will agree at these water temperatures we have been having lately that hooking a fish will likely kill it whether it swims away or not. So, maybe I will join you in floating the river

 

[karavanman]

Nice post, a little long winded but thats good! Nice to see all the good info.

 

[karavanman]

However I will mention the "PIT's" were used in adult fish one time at least. I'm 100% sure of this becasue I remember reading an article in the paper once too about that.

 

[zamboni-guy]

Yes the GPS .. well it's like this you can sponser a salmon .. for I think it's $500.00 and watch it on your computer as to where it is .. or has made it to ..I do belive that technology is better then tagging .. but expensive. I do belive the atlantic salmon federation did sponser a salmon .. and it made it to Greenland from the marimachi system .. that to me is a wonderful source of information.

 

[karavanman]

Very useful but not to be overused correct?

 

[Dragon]

I was kinda confused about the clipping of the fins. If they were done to fry in a hatchery that is fine.

I was down fishing in a few spots today and the water is really really warm. As I understand and this is how it was explained to me the warmer the water the less oxygen in the water. Take a nice cold glass of water and it will be nice and clear but let it warm up and little oxygen bubbles will form on the glass. As the water warms the oxygen molecules will separate from the water molecules.

My science could be a little off but the fish could be suffocating. Was also at a flyshop today and few other fisherman mentioned seeing 3-4 dead salmon on the banks.

 

[zamboni-guy]

I was kinda confused about the clipping of the fins. If they were done to fry in a hatchery that is fine.

I was down fishing in a few spots today and the water is really really warm. As I understand and this is how it was explained to me the warmer the water the less oxygen in the water. Take a nice cold glass of water and it will be nice and clear but let it warm up and little oxygen bubbles will form on the glass. As the water warms the oxygen molecules will separate from the water molecules.

My science could be a little off but the fish could be suffocating. Was also at a flyshop today and few other fisherman mentioned seeing 3-4 dead salmon on the banks.

believe it or not you are 100%correct . i make ice for a living .. and when making ice the hotter the water the better. for all the non believers .. i will suggest this .. take 2 ice trays .. fill one with tap water .. and freeze it .. the other boil water fill the tray .. and freeze it .. not only will the hot freeze faster .. but it will freeze clear .. because the oxegen is released ..

 

[Tippet]

zamboni-guy: There have been GPS tags used in the past, but only just a few. These are much more expensive (several thousand dollars) and of the pop-up variety. The $500 sponsor a salmon program put on by ASF is for smolt and kelt ACOUSTIC tracking. This works by sound waves picked up by reciever arrays like those deployed in Miramichi Bay and the Strait of Belle Isle by the ASF and the Ocean Tracking Network.