Is there any way to capture sturgeon without killing shad and stripers. What do they do with
all the shad and stripers that they kill. Are they dumped somewhere?
all the shad and stripers that they kill. Are they dumped somewhere?
Muskie as Invasive Species in NB
Hey guys,
Like many anglers I think it's pretty cool that I can go out on the river here and have a chance of catching muskie. However they are an invasive species, and they are spreading south. I suspect in a handful of years they will be throughout the entire St. John river system.
What I don't understand is why there is not an uproar against these fish? They are a top level predator, with no natural enemies. Nothing to control their population except us anglers... and the majority of the serious musky anglers seem to be practicing catch and release. (although I could easily be wrong here).
Look at the uproar of asian carp getting into the great lakes. Or smallmouth getting into the miramichi river system. Is the problem with these two examples only because of money? (i.e. the fishing industry in the great lakes and the salmon industry (tourism, etc) in the Miramichi?
Personally I'd love to have salmon and trout improve in the St John system, but that seems even less likely with the introduction of these top predators. What about the sturgeon in the river? There is almost nowhere else on the east coast of North America with such a strong sturgeon population, but it is mostly isolated to this one river system. Will they eat young sturgeon?
I'm really not advocating the removal of muskie. I think it's too late for that now anyway. I just think it interesting that this invasive species seems almost welcomed.
Like many anglers I think it's pretty cool that I can go out on the river here and have a chance of catching muskie. However they are an invasive species, and they are spreading south. I suspect in a handful of years they will be throughout the entire St. John river system.
What I don't understand is why there is not an uproar against these fish? They are a top level predator, with no natural enemies. Nothing to control their population except us anglers... and the majority of the serious musky anglers seem to be practicing catch and release. (although I could easily be wrong here).
Look at the uproar of asian carp getting into the great lakes. Or smallmouth getting into the miramichi river system. Is the problem with these two examples only because of money? (i.e. the fishing industry in the great lakes and the salmon industry (tourism, etc) in the Miramichi?
Personally I'd love to have salmon and trout improve in the St John system, but that seems even less likely with the introduction of these top predators. What about the sturgeon in the river? There is almost nowhere else on the east coast of North America with such a strong sturgeon population, but it is mostly isolated to this one river system. Will they eat young sturgeon?
I'm really not advocating the removal of muskie. I think it's too late for that now anyway. I just think it interesting that this invasive species seems almost welcomed.
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Actually, he is fishing purposely for shad with gill nets. Have you ever seen the price of shad at the market? That's a lot of money worth of shad right there. Probably more shad in that boat than what comes up the Hammond River. There is a wier in Kingston Creek, one on Darling's Lake and one near Morrisdale, that probably kill less by catch, but I have no way to say for sure. I can remember fishing near the end of Darling's Island one year and the smell of dead fish was heavy in the air. I never did find the dump spot, but I was told some fishermen left his net out too long and it all went bad, so it was dumped in the marsh.Is there any way to capture sturgeon without killing shad and stripers. What do they do with
all the shad and stripers that they kill. Are they dumped somewhere?
There are at least 5 stripers in the bycatch. I've talked to the Whepley's before and they said the striped bass are a nuisance. Other shad fishermen I've talked to have said they've caught many stripers in their nets and have had to throw them all back dead except for one, which they even admit is a shame and waste. Personally, I'd like to see no commercial fishing in our river systems, but that won't happen, so why can't they all use trap nets or weirs to allow them to cull non commercial species out while they are still alive? I know the eel nets catch huge amounts of young fish and sometimes sturgeon, stripers (up to 40lbs I've seen) and anything else that goes in through the net or tries to get at the bait inside. Often times the young perch, river shad, bass, etc are dead by the time the net is hauled and/or re-used as bait. These fish might be considered junk fish, but are very important prey items for all the larger fish in the river system as well as being the next generations of their species.
Along the oromocto river as soon as you start getting close to a net you can smell the dead fish that they've dumped in the woods along shore. Looked like mostly catfish to me, however as mentioned these nongame fish do figure into the predator prey relationship.
Bill G.
Bill G.
Wow talk about wanton waste of wildlife, killing all those shad, stripers and god knows what else for a few sturgeon, pretty disgusting...and as far as "we harvest a small amount of fish 300-350"... for a fish that lives that long and takes that long to mature 350 fish is a lot,especially if they are mature adults not to mention the huge amount of other species they are basically just thrwoing in the garbage, Just goes to show we (as in man kind)fish one fish to near extinction (cod, Atlantic salmon likely in the near future), so we move on to another, pretty soon we'll all be buying bullheads, pickerel and dogfish at the supermarket because thats all that will be left, then they will be gone, I have an old picture of my grandfather with a huge striper he caught from shore of Maquapit Lake, my mother said it was nothing for him to be able to go down to the beach and catch a striper in any of the lakes, and trout in just about any brook and salmon in a lot more rivers than you can now, the sj being one of them , the salmon in the sj river are so far gone now they will never be back the way they were, even if they did remove the dam, which from the silt ect of removing would kill just about everything in the river anyways.I for one am glad there are muskie, bass and pickerel in the Sj river system, when I have kids by the time they are old enough to go fishing they won't know what a salmon or trout is so atleast they will be able to fish for something.
They are purposely fishing shad. The striped bass and 3 small sturgeon are bycatch. However, I wonder if they have a minimum size to the sturgeon they are allowed to keep? Did they keep them and take them back to the tanks on the farm or just line them up for a picture and let them go? They will have the capacity in the future to produce a lot of sturgeon, however, I'd like to know how long it will take them to get the fish to market size? I've seen site plans and they will be putting in dozens of tanks.Wow talk about wanton waste of wildlife, killing all those shad, stripers and god knows what else for a few sturgeon, pretty disgusting
I don't know what they would consider market size, but it's estimated that it takes them 20+ years before they are sexually mature and spawn. They are a very slow growing and long lived fish.They are purposely fishing shad. The striped bass and 3 small sturgeon are bycatch. However, I wonder if they have a minimum size to the sturgeon they are allowed to keep? Did they keep them and take them back to the tanks on the farm or just line them up for a picture and let them go? They will have the capacity in the future to produce a lot of sturgeon, however, I'd like to know how long it will take them to get the fish to market size? I've seen site plans and they will be putting in dozens of tanks.
I believe the Americans closed sturgeon fishing in the 70's and I don't think their numbers ever came back to anything near what we have in our river systems. I believe that anyone who increases commercial fishing pressure for sturgeon in the Saint John river system is taking advantage of lax government regulations that never took into account that anyone would be interested in fishing them on such a scale. Sort of a viking mentality,"Burn, pillage and move on to the next village." Hopefully they can get their young sturgeon to market size quickly enough so that they can rely solely on their own broodstock and for resale so as to not continue applying pressure above and beyond what the Whepley's and any other commercial fishermen have had on the population. Too often we wait for our fisheries to hit rock bottom instead of keeping them at acceptable levels and I hope that our sturgeon population is not the next species to take the big hit.I don't know what they would consider market size, but it's estimated that it takes them 20+ years before they are sexually mature and spawn. They are a very slow growing and long lived fish.
I agree. The St. John river is one of the last places on earth for the Atlantic sturgeon to have solid numbers. A few other systems have a few thousand adults in the system, by the St.John has a very healthy stock, relatively speaking. While I applaud efforts to improve their numbers and help them survive, it needs to be done in a reasonable way. One that doesn't put other species at risk.I believe the Americans closed sturgeon fishing in the 70's and I don't think their numbers ever came back to anything near what we have in our river systems. I believe that anyone who increases commercial fishing pressure for sturgeon in the Saint John river system is taking advantage of lax government regulations that never took into account that anyone would be interested in fishing them on such a scale. Sort of a viking mentality,"Burn, pillage and move on to the next village." Hopefully they can get their young sturgeon to market size quickly enough so that they can rely solely on their own broodstock and for resale so as to not continue applying pressure above and beyond what the Whepley's and any other commercial fishermen have had on the population. Too often we wait for our fisheries to hit rock bottom instead of keeping them at acceptable levels and I hope that our sturgeon population is not the next species to take the big hit.
They'll never get in trouble for keeping those Bass.If that was one of us, we would.Also what kind of an idiot would post a pic like that on their website?
im killin all my muskie! hopefully 10 a day< keep em away from the miramichi.
good luck with that......if you can catch 10 muskie in a day you should seriously consider going proim killin all my muskie! hopefully 10 a day< keep em away from the miramichi.
Im sure the DNR would be impressed with you killing 10 a day, just think all the money they get from the fines you pile up.
One issue with the muskie in the lower St John is the ability to swim up the Nashwaak and into other water sheds from there. The muskies need to be killed or moved to another province as they are not part of our aquaculture.
we will never be able to get rid of the muskies in the SJR system. they're here for good just like bass and pickerel.
Adam, as far as i know the SJR system does not connect with the miramichi system (correct me if i'm wrong) but if you really want to kill a bunch of fish to save the salmon, you should throw some spinnerbaits in miramichi lake and get some of the bass out of there!
You're right about that! Especially since the NB gov't is protecting them, probably for $$$ reasons (they, along with smallmouth bass, are a lot cheaper to have around since they thrive without needing to be re-stocked like the trout and salmon, plus as much money can be generated from them as the Atlantic salmon fishery).we will never be able to get rid of the muskies in the SJR system. they're here for good just like bass and pickerel.
I asked a g-man the other day why would they allow a 5 trout limit per day (and further up the SJR a 10 fish limit) with only a 10 cm size limit, and you can fish them all season, but only a two per day limit for smallmouth bass and only from July 1-15, and they have to be 25 cm long? The answer was that people generally only fish for trout to eat them, whereas the smb are not eaten generally, and are more for sport. (=$ for prov. of NB)
opinions are like ass#oles everybody has 1! also if i was allowed to throw a spinnerbait in the miramichi lake i would, and if i could catch 10 musky a day and kill them i wouldnt recieve any fines since that is the bag limit , guys gotta get yer rules and regs down before ya post!!!!
Acac, my apologies. When you said kill 10 I assumed you meant throw them in the woods like a lot of people do with smallies. By all means take your 10 a day. You will still not get them out of the river system or even slow them down.
Agreed. catching 10 muskie in 1 day seems rather ambitious.good luck with that......if you can catch 10 muskie in a day you should seriously consider going pro
As for the government protecting muskies, I don't see that anywhere. The bag limit is 10/day and the size restrictions are 10cm to 170cm. Really? I don't call that restrictive in any sense of the word. Sounds more like open season to me. Now the government isn't doing anything to actually restrict the spread in the Saint John River watershed, but I'm not sure there is much they could do about it at this time. Personally I think it is easier for them to sit back and wait for the fishery to spread and mature. Lot's of money will eventually be brought into the province because of it.
Is there a difference what you do with your fish, provided you don't exceed your limit? Or are you required to keep them all with you while you are fishing?Acac, my apologies. When you said kill 10 I assumed you meant throw them in the woods like a lot of people do with smallies. By all means take your 10 a day. You will still not get them out of the river system or even slow them down.
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