Miramichi Lake SMB Invasion - Conservation - New Brunswick Fishing

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Miramichi Lake SMB Invasion


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#1 Flyfisherman

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Posted 03 June 2010 - 06:27 PM

I was just wondering if anyone had any news concerning the smallmouth bass which were illegally introduced to Miramichi Lake. The last I heard only weak attempts had been made so far to contain and eradicate the fish, does anyone know if Rotenone or other more effective means have been further considered? The government should really be making this a top priority issue and get the situation under control as soon as possible...
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#2 Nim Rod

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Posted 03 June 2010 - 07:54 PM

I was just wondering if anyone had any news concerning the smallmouth bass which were illegally introduced to Miramichi Lake. The last I heard only weak attempts had been made so far to contain and eradicate the fish, does anyone know if Rotenone or other more effective means have been further considered? The government should really be making this a top priority issue and get the situation under control as soon as possible...


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#3 Nim Rod

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Posted 03 June 2010 - 07:55 PM

pretty poor effort as far as i'm concerned
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#4 nashwaaker

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Posted 04 June 2010 - 08:01 AM

I was just wondering if anyone had any news concerning the smallmouth bass which were illegally introduced to Miramichi Lake. The last I heard only weak attempts had been made so far to contain and eradicate the fish, does anyone know if Rotenone or other more effective means have been further considered? The government should really be making this a top priority issue and get the situation under control as soon as possible...


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#5 nashwaaker

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Posted 04 June 2010 - 08:03 AM

A camp owner told me this spring that he had gotten a letter from the government informing him that they were going to poison the lake or were considering it.
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#6 Fisherjohn

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Posted 04 June 2010 - 09:48 AM

DFO are proceeding with electrofishing and a barrier in an attempt to contain & eradicate the bass.This after all the best science dictates that it will not work. The Minister of Natural Resourses has recently requested by letter that DFO be prepared to use Rotenone if their experiment fails.
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#7 nbdeerhunter

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Posted 04 June 2010 - 10:36 AM

skip the experiment there is too much at stake for everyone here in NB and just Rotenone the ass out of those bass and move on from there.
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#8 Irvine

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Posted 04 June 2010 - 10:46 PM

I'm not very familiar with the chemical 'Rotenone'.

So, I have a question or two regarding it.

1) Will the chemical in question (rotenone), kill all species of fish in the lake? (I would assume so, but I'm not positive)

2) How long will it take to get the lake back to 'normal', once it has been poisoned? (Until all wanted species are back, to average sizes, etc...)

I'm just curious. Is this really the best way to go about it? Or, can other methods be used to not harm all species?
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#9 owenheathcote

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Posted 05 June 2010 - 02:05 PM

If Rotenone is used what happens to the insects or the bottom of the food chain in the lake.

In the East Branch of Musquash the Smallmouth and Land Locked live together.
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#10 BobD

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Posted 05 June 2010 - 03:59 PM

I don't know a lot about Retenone, but information is easily found on the internet. Here is a good link I just found.
http://www.doc.govt....ical/SFC211.pdf
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#11 BobD

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Posted 05 June 2010 - 04:00 PM

(deleting a duplicate post)
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#12 Shadetree

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 05:35 PM

The letter about the use of rotenone was sent out to camp owners from a concerned salmon fisherman, not the government. As for the invertebrates and lower forms of life, I was told by a DFO scientist that their populations would only ever reach 80 percent of what they were before the application of rotenone.
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#13 ipop

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 06:03 PM

shadetree, was that fact or guestimate? if it's fact, we need to start using it to control gnats!!! only kidding.
they use this because it doesn't have a lasting effect in the enviroment, otherwise there are many more poisons they could use. the problem is that eliminating bass, including the many babies is very difficult without killing everthing. it would be a few years before things would come back naturaly, and they don't plan to go that way, instead following what others did by reintroducing from small to big.
this isn't the desirable thing to do. it's just the only thing that works so far. they should do the same for west long lake. it seems that speading smallies all over is more important than keeping our salmon and trout for some people.
and frankly, i have had it with those people!!!!!!!!!!

i am now of the opinion that the bass tour here should be outlawed, along with the use of live wells. think i'm getting carried way? i would have agreed with you as little as 2 years ago - now? no more mr. nice guy!!
the latest reason for being this po'ed was what started as a nice conversation as i was putting in at hammond river.
a friendly guy was illegaly walking his dog, we started talking about fishing, i let him know about the kayak tourney there on july 24-25. we both wanted to get str00vers info about more than one rod in the water rule from dfo - in person or in writing! (yup, i can't find it anywhere. it's not that i don't believe ya, i just don't fell like fighting it in court without something that says that we can.)

then we started talking about bass. smallies. it turns out we fish a lot of the same lakes and he fishes the bass tour. we discussed "culling" and the fact that a water can only hold so much biomass, including bait fish and sport fish, so if you want nmore big fish, "cull" the numbers of smaller fish. for an example he sited a local lake, i believe it was forest lake, saying with a grin that some one had put smallies in it, much to the annoyance of the locals that live on it. apparently the locals started tossing all the bass into the woods when they caught them. then the grin got bigger as he said now there were no more trout in the lake and it had about 100 big bass! and the perverbial crap hit the fan!! i said "and that's what happened to the salmon and trout in sw nb"
he said that people did it, not the bass.
i agreed, the people put the bass there! not the only problem but an easily seen effect. i pointed outv that we had just discussed biomass, and that there could only be so much fish. more big bass means fewer smaller bass - and fewer other fish, like trout and salmon.
he then stated that bass don't eat trout...
yah, right. that's why they call them stocker trout!!! they use them to feed bass!
he then went on about how this area was ruined anyway, so it makes no differance.
i replied, so for you, the fishing is ruined if there's no bass there?
that set him off, now accusing me of being one of those bass haters, and how i knew nothing about it, even though we had just discussed how we fish the same spots for bass.

well, after this conversation, i guess he's sort of right. i know have a hate on for irresponsible bass fishermen spreading smallies everywhere and destroying the trout and salmon fishing. i challenge the bass groups to prove me wrong by controlling and educating their members - or shut down!!!

oh, and nothing personal owenheathcote, but we have to stock land loch's and trout now in musquash. guess why?
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#14 Shadetree

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 10:27 PM

@ipop, I was told that was taken from a reviw of the available literature. I have not checked in on as I trust the source. As it is now, there have been 13 bass eradicated from the lake this year. If things go as last year, as the water warms the fish are more active and the number caught will go up exponentially. There were a few experts on loan from the NS govennment into the lake for a week and they caught none. So I hope that is a good sign. The maintenance of the barrier is much better this year, 30,000 Gasperau made it into and out of the lake alive, normal numbers were dead on the beach which was few. So far things seem good, the DFO biologist that is in there is doing a great job with what they have to work with.
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#15 Rick G

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 02:40 PM

shadetree, was that fact or guestimate? if it's fact, we need to start using it to control gnats!!! only kidding.
they use this because it doesn't have a lasting effect in the enviroment, otherwise there are many more poisons they could use. the problem is that eliminating bass, including the many babies is very difficult without killing everthing. it would be a few years before things would come back naturaly, and they don't plan to go that way, instead following what others did by reintroducing from small to big.
this isn't the desirable thing to do. it's just the only thing that works so far. they should do the same for west long lake. it seems that speading smallies all over is more important than keeping our salmon and trout for some people.
and frankly, i have had it with those people!!!!!!!!!!

i am now of the opinion that the bass tour here should be outlawed, along with the use of live wells. think i'm getting carried way? i would have agreed with you as little as 2 years ago - now? no more mr. nice guy!!
the latest reason for being this po'ed was what started as a nice conversation as i was putting in at hammond river.
a friendly guy was illegaly walking his dog, we started talking about fishing, i let him know about the kayak tourney there on july 24-25. we both wanted to get str00vers info about more than one rod in the water rule from dfo - in person or in writing! (yup, i can't find it anywhere. it's not that i don't believe ya, i just don't fell like fighting it in court without something that says that we can.)

then we started talking about bass. smallies. it turns out we fish a lot of the same lakes and he fishes the bass tour. we discussed "culling" and the fact that a water can only hold so much biomass, including bait fish and sport fish, so if you want nmore big fish, "cull" the numbers of smaller fish. for an example he sited a local lake, i believe it was forest lake, saying with a grin that some one had put smallies in it, much to the annoyance of the locals that live on it. apparently the locals started tossing all the bass into the woods when they caught them. then the grin got bigger as he said now there were no more trout in the lake and it had about 100 big bass! and the perverbial crap hit the fan!! i said "and that's what happened to the salmon and trout in sw nb"
he said that people did it, not the bass.
i agreed, the people put the bass there! not the only problem but an easily seen effect. i pointed outv that we had just discussed biomass, and that there could only be so much fish. more big bass means fewer smaller bass - and fewer other fish, like trout and salmon.
he then stated that bass don't eat trout...
yah, right. that's why they call them stocker trout!!! they use them to feed bass!
he then went on about how this area was ruined anyway, so it makes no differance.
i replied, so for you, the fishing is ruined if there's no bass there?
that set him off, now accusing me of being one of those bass haters, and how i knew nothing about it, even though we had just discussed how we fish the same spots for bass.

well, after this conversation, i guess he's sort of right. i know have a hate on for irresponsible bass fishermen spreading smallies everywhere and destroying the trout and salmon fishing. i challenge the bass groups to prove me wrong by controlling and educating their members - or shut down!!!

oh, and nothing personal owenheathcote, but we have to stock land loch's and trout now in musquash. guess why?

IPOP, the bass tournaments have no bearing on illegal introductions of any species of fish. It is done by individuals who could care less about the harm that they are doing to a body of water with their actions. It is not just bass being moved around, some idiot put chain pickerel in the Magaguadavic system and it is now infested with them. The problem in Nova Scotia appears to be even worse with pickerel being introduced at an alarming rate into some pristine trout lakes.
I am an avid tournament angler and would not hesitate for a second to report someone moving fish if I caught them at it. I know of at least one instance where a tournament angler stopped a guy on the ramp at Harvey that was pulling out with a full livewell of bass. He told him to release them or he would call DNR and the RCMP before he got out of the parking lot. I have fished with a lot of guys over the years and most tournament anglers are more aware of the fishery than most people. Because you had the misfortune to run into a nitwit who happens to fish tournaments does not mean we are all like that.
The unfortunate thing about this thread is that the idiots who move fish probably do not tend to read these posts. The educated anglers do not move fish and do not condone it. This subject was discussed at NBSFA seminars at Phil's this spring and also at the Moncton Boat Show by two of the presenters.
Based on the conversation that you related you could not possibly consider the individual to be an ethical or educated angler. From a tournament perspective, moving bass to a lake that had no tournaments certainly wouldn't make any sense. He is just an idiot who wanted some fish closer to home.
It is against the law to transport fish and some people still do it. Banning bass tournaments and or livewells who have no effect on these people, they would just do it with a cooler instead. I would love to see more enforcement officers out on the water doing random stops and checking livewells. It is illegal to have live possesion without a tournament permit. A few charges and some good stiff fines might be a bit of a deterent. Right now there is almost zero change of being checked because they have cut the officers back so bad. I can't even remember the last time I saw one and that is a shame.
I am a tournament angler and a conservationist. I enjoy my sport as much as you do yours. I would not move fish anymore than you would and I have spoken out against it just as you have. We are not all like the individual you had the misfortune to encounter.

Rick
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#16 ipop

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 06:53 PM

rick, good to hear most of what you said. the problem is, you are one of the very very very few tournemt bass anglers who are responsible and understand the realities. i have however talked to way too many with the attitude i ranted about abouv. the the use of a live well is only allowed during an official bass tourney, their use at any other time is illegal. and yes, they could stock other ways, but they are lazy enough not to drive an extra half hour to a propper bass lake, so coolers may be to much like work for them. and easier to get caught. i'm glad this was brought up at the nbsfa seminars, because this is your problem - the salmon and trout fishermen sure aren't doing this. this isn't personal Rick.

as memntioned, i like to fish smallies, so i'm not againts the fish per say, just their illegal distribution and the permenant damage it's causing.
do you remember when they first allowed you to use a live well and to cull bass here? it's not as long ago as you think! the tourneys were illegaly culling and using live wells untill some body noticed and told dnr...who then made the brilliant move of making it legal. this was only a few years ago.
i realy don't care about culling for a bass tourney, or any properly run tourney, but do the officials check to make sure the well is empty after weigh in? they should be! this is why the bass tourneys DO have something to do with introducing illegal fish. additionally the idiots that stock lakes just so they can practice closer to home would have no reason to do this if there wasn't a tourney to practice for.

as individuals simpley acting responsibly is fine. as a group you need to show this can be done safely and without harm. lately the bass groups are not coming across as responsible and i can no longer support them or agree that they should be allowed - the enviroment has to come first.
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#17 ipop

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 07:54 PM

shadetree - good news they are getting rid of some of them! nice to hear the dnr are active there too after the cut backs - way to go guys! keep it up. and thanks!
not so good that you think those numbers for little critters is sound - that's a drag. i guess it's still not a good solution, but most likely the only solution. i say this because the guys argueing for fishing for smallies during spawn contend it only takes 2-3 females to keep a medium size lake stocked to capacity. and at least one male.
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#18 Shadetree

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 12:57 PM

Water is warmed up and more bass are starting to show up, they got one last week that was over 50cm!
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Shadetree

#19 Scanner_66

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 07:29 AM

Question, the statment was made : "It is illegal to have live possesion without a tournament permit" I have not found the basis for this except for where it refers to baitfish. I do not have a livewell but was considering one for my next boat as fresher fish is easier to clean. If there is a lwas that says you can not keep your catch alive I would like to see where it is, thanks
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#20 lobsterman

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 12:13 PM

Water is warmed up and more bass are starting to show up, they got one last week that was over 50cm!


Someone who was there on that day tells me that fish weighed more than four pounds. :o
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