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What's the smallest possible buck bug that can be tied?


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#1 Stroover

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 04:42 PM

Hey guys,
Let's say I wanted to tie a size 18 to 22 green machine. Is it possible to spin deer hair on a hook that small? What would be a good alternative to deer hair?
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#2 Captain Hook

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 05:13 PM

You can use utltra micro chenille or chenille. A lot of people don't like to spin deer hair and opt for the chenille. It saves you a lot of time. I use the chenille for the under belly of a Belly Dancer which is basically a Green Machine with a chenille belly. Hope it helps.
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#3 abaloneus

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 07:06 PM

does chenille float like deer hair? I would imagine you could spin deer hair just about any hook size would just take an amazing amount of skill and precision.
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#4 Stroover

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 10:04 PM

Hmm, if I thought I could pull off deer hair, that would be my choice. I think deer hair does a much better job than chenille, and from a fish's pov, I think it looks tastier....
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#5 Captain Hook

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 10:15 PM

Deer hair is hollow so it tends to float well. Chenille will soak up more water and will sink more. I also think when possible, deer hair is the way to go.
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#6 Stroover

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 10:17 PM

Deer hair is hollow so it tends to float well. Chenille will soak up more water and will sink more. I also think when possible, deer hair is the way to go.


And that's the idea: I need it to only sink about 6 to 8 inches, which deer hair does the job perfectly.
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#7 Brent

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 05:46 AM

I should think an 18 would be do-able, but I think when you get down to #22, your problem with deer hair (besides the actual spinning of the hair and the fact that you might only be using five or six hairs) would be that the superfine thread you'd be using tends to cut through the deer hair when you try to tension it sufficiently to spin the hair. Might be a bit of a challenge, if you do succeed in spinning the hair, to trim the bottom sufficiently to give a useful hook gap, too.

If you do manage it, I'd love to see a photo posted here. It would be a killer fly, esp if you could palmer a hackle through it.

How about just using peacock herl? Not quite the correct colour you're looking for, but real buggy looking, and in those fly sizes, fast sinking isn't really a problem anyway.
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#8 Brent

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 08:59 AM

Stroover:
Well, I stand corrected. You got me thinking, so I hit the tying table this morning and gave it a try.
First attempt with coarse, green-dyed whitetail deerhair was an abject failure on a #22 up-eye 94840, but I tried it with some fine red deer hair (i.e. hair off a red deer, not red-dyed deer hair), and it worked fine. Used 12/0 thread, laid a base wrap back to even with the hook point, and was REAL gentle with the spinning, and it worked. When finished, I ended up with a hook gap that was closer to that of a #24, but it could still work. Didn't bother with palmering a hackle through it, but it could be done for sure, and boy, would it look 'buggy', esp with a grizzly hackle. Its a very small-bodied fly, because there is no way to effectively spin the hair back of the point of the hook. Not sure where you could buy pre-dyed red deer hair, but I expect Bryant could do you a small batch. I used a bunch of hair 1/4" in diameter.

Sorry for the lack of a photo; camera's not at home right now.
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#9 Stroover

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 12:04 PM

Stroover:
Well, I stand corrected. You got me thinking, so I hit the tying table this morning and gave it a try.
First attempt with coarse, green-dyed whitetail deerhair was an abject failure on a #22 up-eye 94840, but I tried it with some fine red deer hair (i.e. hair off a red deer, not red-dyed deer hair), and it worked fine. Used 12/0 thread, laid a base wrap back to even with the hook point, and was REAL gentle with the spinning, and it worked. When finished, I ended up with a hook gap that was closer to that of a #24, but it could still work. Didn't bother with palmering a hackle through it, but it could be done for sure, and boy, would it look 'buggy', esp with a grizzly hackle. Its a very small-bodied fly, because there is no way to effectively spin the hair back of the point of the hook. Not sure where you could buy pre-dyed red deer hair, but I expect Bryant could do you a small batch. I used a bunch of hair 1/4" in diameter.

Sorry for the lack of a photo; camera's not at home right now.

Awesome, Brent! So, red deer hair, eh? How "red" is the red? Is there any part to it that is greyer in color? What would happen if I just used the tips of white tailed deer hair?
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#10 Brent

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 12:20 PM

The red deer piece I have is closer to a light elk in colour. By red deer, I mean the european 'red deer' which, I think, is probably more closely related to the elk than the whitetail. I think if you saw the whole hide it would have a 'reddish' tinge to it, not unlike the way whitetails look in midsummer from a distance. But its really a creamy grey colour. Hadn't considered working with the tips of whitetail. Sounds like a plan. The piece of green I had was very coarse with quickly tapering tips.. I expect if you have a large piece of a hide you could find some thinner bits somewhere on it. In fact, elk might be a reasonable substitute; not as buoyant as deer, I understand, but you're not looking for a floater anyway, right? The natural creamy grey is pretty buggy looking, like an old style buckbug. I suppose a green pantene marker would have it green in quick order.

Good luck! I'm looking forward to trying out your idea of tiny buck bugs Might break down and give 'em a shot this afternoon across the road. The trout are all long gone well up the gornish, but there's a great run of 10 to 14" fallfish that give a good account of themselves on the 3 wt. Not keeping them anyway, so a few 'hoovermouth trout' might be just the ticket. :rolleyes:

Oh wait. Its mother's day. Make that tomorrow morning.
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#11 DoubleD

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 02:30 PM

Not pretty, but should work well if I manage to tie it to a leader... size 18
http://newbrunswickf.../1215-dscn1951/
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#12 FlyFisherC&R

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 03:01 PM

Hey guys,
Let's say I wanted to tie a size 18 to 22 green machine. Is it possible to spin deer hair on a hook that small? What would be a good alternative to deer hair?


I could tie a Legit deer hair buck bug size 16 if you wanted ;)
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#13 Stroover

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 05:06 PM

I could tie a Legit deer hair buck bug size 16 if you wanted ;)

Sixteen is too big.
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#14 megz34

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 11:08 AM

When tying tiny green machines I use dubbing for the body, it generally still floats pretty well.


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#15 Stroover

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 07:00 PM

The smallest I've attempted with deer hair is on size #14. It actually works pretty well! I don't think I could go any smaller, though. Anyway, I dont' think it's necessary. ;)


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