Is there still trout in the Hammond? - Trout Fishing - New Brunswick Fishing

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Is there still trout in the Hammond?


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#1 brewbastid

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 07:22 PM

I've been fishing the Hammond for a few years now and with the exception of a couple fish, I've only ever caught bass there. Are the trout gone? Or do I just have terrible luck / skill haha? 

 

Is there anywhere around the greater SJ area where you can flyfish for trout? 


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#2 alarsene

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 01:25 PM

It's to early . The water is still cold and the sea trout aren't up yet.
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#3 brewbastid

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 05:13 PM

I know it's too early right now but i'm more reffering to trout in general. Like I mentioned in the post, it's something I've noticed over the past few years


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#4 Jim VE9WH

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 09:06 PM

Yes there are still trout in the Hammond
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Jim VE9WH


#5 Atoqwa'su

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 08:16 AM

There are very few trout now on the Hammond as compared to say ten years ago, regardless that it's still too early. There are several contributing factors involved which I will not get into, with the bass being only one component in the mix.


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#6 dustinjm87

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 07:35 AM

Welcome to almost all bodies of water in New Brunswick that contain trout. The combination of a 5 keep limit and the fact you're allowed to keep them before they even reach the size of maturity combined with a mentality around here that trout are for food and not fun, then you sprinkle on a little I've got to pack the freezer full of trout for winter and you're left with very few fish after decades of poor conservation.
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#7 Flytosser

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 05:52 PM

I dont necessarily agree to lay blame on anglers who want to keep fish. I believe environmental causes such as clear cutting exposing the nursery brooks to day long sunlight and other such factors harbour the lyon's share of blame. Our waters are dirtier and warmer than ever not to mention water levels are at all time lows. Our trout face a risk of summer dead loss greater than ever. That is your culprit.
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#8 dustinjm87

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 06:07 AM

Just another person who likes to throw the blame on something else.

From my personal experience the Brooks I walk that many other people walk ( see lots of foot prints ) have maybe 10% of the fish that other long hard Brooks to walk have. If there's easy to access trout water people will hit it as hard as they can.

Logging has had no factor in the 10hour walk Brooks so why should it factor in the 2 hour ones ?

It's been scientifically proven in other provinces that over fishing is by and far the biggest cause of trout depletion. And in NB would be another prime example if they ever spent a dollar on trout over salmon research.
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#9 stafman

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 07:55 AM

Dustin obviously has some outside perspective-look at the regs in other provinces....you typically see minimums of 6-13 inches, where here our minimum is a ridiculous 4 inches, so we are legally allowing people to give trout that have never spawned. Our fish management practices are ridiculous and archaic. 

 

In the late 60's the minimum for retention was over 6 inches, and guess what, they used to catch a lot of huge trout. It's not hard to look at the data and see how poorly our government and local fish and game organizations are managing cold water species...


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#10 Flytosser

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 08:44 AM

Id like to see how that's been 'proven'. Was it 'proven' the same way Irving 'proved' mowing and spraying doesnt impact wildlife? Brooks that neither you or anyone ever fish are losing fish year after year.

I lived next to one called 'Appleby' Brook it runs almost exclusivly through private land and is seldom if ever fished except at the culvert and very liitle at that. 15 short years ago you could catch 10 inchers in every little bend pool. Good luck doing that now. Where did they go? I certainly didnt get them. It must be the seagulls right? But, you know what, about that same time, the landowner at the mouth of it cut his timber the wide oppen space caused windfalls to choke it off right at the mouth and it seems to have missed several seasons of successful spawning runs. Lord knows how long it will take or if it will recover.

The same goes for the remote right hand Branch Barnaby river. Runs in deep forest accessible only to the hearty tough angler who will hike and wade or canoe it. What happened there? Good trout still reside there but for some reason, there are less than half if you were to be conserative about it... you know what I find there all summer? Algea, because its sunlit like never before. You can't catch something that never hatched.

What about the Restigouche? 95% private or crown waters, and, the angler population has been at all time lows for decades because of economic depression yet,... same thing, the celebrated sea trout runs are, by local standards, shadows of the past.
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#11 stafman

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 09:02 AM

Interesting take Flytosser, and I think that it's maybe harder to look at the data related to clear cutting and draw direct parallels to lack of large fish ONLY because Irving wants it that way. I would love to see in depth studies of river health comparing a system like the Cains to a once great trout water now in decline and try and draw some parallels. I think you're definitely onto something in regards to less evident pressures being the cause for a less than stellar trout population. Environmental toxins such as agent orange also come to mind.


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The water is my church. 


#12 Flytosser

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 09:33 AM

Indeed, it would be worth investigating.

A lifetime of wading small streams took me to my conclusions. Im only 40, but in my lifetime i've witnessed heartbreaking deterioration in the streams of my youth. Many times overnight as the clearcuts overan stream and shut down once producrive trout holds.

There arent enough anglers in NB to depleat 60,000 KMs of trout streams. I dont deny effects of over fishing in localised areas but that a drop in the bucket and the problem is widspread.

The good news is that there are still great stretches that can regenerate the stock if we stop running timberjacks through them.
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#13 Atoqwa'su

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 11:14 AM

As you all know, I am not one to lock horns with people on this forum, however, I will have to respectfully disagree with you, Flytosser, though by no means do I mean to offend you. Though there are indeed many factors involved, I will only focus on two of your points. First off, deadfall will not prevent fish, especially trout, from passing through. They can find their way through amazingly tight spaces, like beaver dams for instance. Also, fishing pressure directly affects fish populations, as this is a no-brainer. If people remove fish from a river, especially before they have had a chance to spawn, then you will have fewer and fewer fish in said system. Simple math. Keep taking cookies from the cookie jar and not replace them with more cookies, you will eventually run out of cookies.

 

To prove this point, my fishing buddy and I hit a popular brook at the beginning of the season, from its mouth to almost its source. Being the first ones through, we caught lots and lots of trout and released all but one 10", though most were quite small yet of legal size. One week later we did the run again. This time there were lots of footprints and empty worm cans for the first kilometer and no trout to be caught except for tiny ones below legal size. Little to no trout were caught until roughly a half kilometer after we stopped seeing footrpints, and then we started catching trout again. Coincidence? Not likely in my opinion, but I'm no scientist.  

 

If the province would put in place a slot limit of, say, 8" minimum to 15" maximum size limit on trout and everything else must be released, in  as little as two years I think you would start seeing lots of 7" and another year or two after that you would start seeing lots of 16" + trout in our waters.

Case in point: There is a particular river in NB that I fish every year, and at the most difficult to reach and furthest stretch of this river it is not uncommon to catch average 16-inchers. On a typical day we will easily land twenty plus trout, not counting anything below 8". Why? Because little to no people know about the stretch or bother to trek there, and those that do practice catch and release. Average 16-inchers, with the biggest being 22" so far. However, where access to this river is close to the main road, shortly after the opener there are little to no trout to catch in those places on the same river.

 

Think about it. Catching big trout could be the case on any river in the province if only the government changed the archaic laws, and if people obeyed said laws and not keep a couple of limits per day, or bring all the members of their family so that dad can catch and keep multiple limits knowing that everyone in his party can keep 5 trout, even little 4 year old Johnny. Yes, this does indeed occur in NB.  Like somebody mentioned earlier, some individuals here feel the need to fish for food as opposed to fish for fun. Unfortunately, things will not get better until this reality changes.


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#14 stafman

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 01:09 PM

 

If the province would put in place a slot limit of, say, 8" minimum to 15" maximum size limit on trout and everything else must be released, in  as little as two years I think you would start seeing lots of 7" and another year or two after that you would start seeing lots of 16" + trout in our waters.

 

 

Couldn't agree more with that philosophy, in fact that statement could very well be my forum signature as I've talked about it so many times. From my point of view, C&R has been proven to be effective time and time again, in any number of different watersheds across the world, so while we can look at the possibility of regulating clear-cutting, how likely is it that we can affect that kind of change in Irving's policies? Adopting a scientifically proven approach to fish conservation is much easier to quantify to potential stakeholders.

 

So often I see pictures from the NB anglers Facebook group (which I had to leave because I couldn't stand all the pictures of dead or poorly handled fish) or elsewhere, I see people proudly displaying their limit of 5-6 inch trout. And the thing is, I was that guy for my first season of trout fishing. Because I didn't grow up fishing, I didn't really understand C&R or conservation practices, so I just went by what the fish book said. That being said, not everybody evolves in their understanding of good fishing practices, especially where the bait fishing community puts so much emphasis on "limiting out". 


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The water is my church. 


#15 dustinjm87

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 05:44 PM

Atoqwa'su you're exactly right about seeing bigger fish in just two years although you actually under estimated how big of an impact.

When trout unlimited in Ontario got the approval to do such a study on a Brook that was thought to only hold fish no bigger than 6-8 inches, they put a law into affect on that stream and within just two years they started seeing Brook trout consistently over 15 inches and after three years they were consistently 18+ inches. Proof that over fishing was the only contributing factor to the poor fishery.

Flytosser, the idea that all of this apparent pollution in our waterways is killing off thousands of fish has always annoyed me. The bow River in Calgary would without a doubt have a much larger pollution issue than any Brook running near a clear cut in NB and yet the bow River is widely regarded as one of the best trout fishing rivers in the world. On top of that the fishing actually improves below the city where pollution would be at its highest.

It might seem easy to point the blame at logging but that's just a convenient fall guy. Do you also blame logging for the decline in large bucks?

I've contacted DNR about improving the regulations on trout and they said the attitude in this province makes even the idea of such a thing out of the question.

I then contacted my local MLA via email and he actually called me within 5 minutes of receiving the email and the reason was..... This was the first time in his 10 years that he had anyone have that request, all previous requested regarding trout were always that we need to be allowed to keep more fish because 5 trout wasnt enough for a good feed.

There's a biologist at UNB in Fredericton I've talked to quite a bit about this subject and he said the govt won't listen to anything because the govt knows if they ever tried to bring such a thing into law they would lose a vast majority of voters.

When trout unlimited tried to set up a chapter here they gave up because they couldn't get any traction with people or govt.
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#16 Diaperman

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 08:57 PM

I lived in Ontario for about 15 years and the fishing is incredible. I say IS incredible because it still is. I hear a lot in NB that the fishing WAS incredible. I read the above post and listen to friends and fellow fishermen/fisher women talk and everyone agrees without knowing it. The problem lies with our government, laws and regulations. So many people are ready to blame Irving, what about all the other lumber mills and their suppliers. They all spray and clear cut, it's a business and they do it to stay competitive, efficient and profitable. The government says they can. All the small trout being taken are because the size limits are rediculious. The government says they can. I do hear a lot of people keeping everything they catch, no matter how small or how big. That's on us, the fisheries officers can only do so much. The different angling groups in Ontario work with, sometimes through pressure, lol with the Ontario government to put time money and effort into the different fisheries. The NB government has to step up and protect all our wildlife, maybe we need to put more pressure on them.
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#17 jonthefishbot

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Posted 01 May 2018 - 06:33 PM

  This province needs a slot limit for trout, along with stiffer punishment for those that break the conservation laws. I think over fishing is the biggest problem, but habitat loss is also a factor, there should be more and stiffer protection for all our waterways. New Brunswick could have fishing on par with Ont if our government would wise up, and change our laws. And it could be a economic boast for our province, if we had world class fishing for trout and other species people will come.


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#18 Flytosser

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 07:59 AM

We all have to be better and while I agree that tougher regulation will help popular lakes and stretches, we would need to seriously address our trout's environment in order to save those fish unaffected by fishing but struggling nonetheless. Failure to recognize that NB is a summertime dust pan is and will prove to be horrific for our trout.
Trout is a cold water fish and is ultra sensitive to environmental disturbances and while slot limits will protect fish from capture, they will not cool the water or clean the accumulated silt deposits left by unprecedented soil errosion.

I agree with all the points of view here, i just think we need to understand that these points of view are collaborative and not opposed, you want slot limits... fine. I want healthy streams. Can we not work together here?
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#19 Seabass

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 08:24 PM

I am an old guy who remembers catching trout in road side ditches. The size limit was 6 inches. There weren't Atvs or many 4x4s other than the  Willys. To fish you had to walk to the brooks and even to most lakes. There was a breeding population in every brook. Now there are roads everywhere and if there is a decent brook with level ground they make trails into brook or lake even through private lands.

Poachers even try to get into Irving's Beatle Brook area where the big sea run trout breed using 4 wheelers hurting the whole Miramichi River. The fish hogs are everywhere you just have to have your eyes open.

With the cutbacks at DNR the chances of getting caught is low. When they catch them they should be charged and there should be reports of how many were caught and the penalty.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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#20 bbb9

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 08:47 PM

im just a young guy and have seen very few trout in my lifetime besides what i caught at a trout farm that was shutting down. After reading this thread i realize how sad it is about how excited i get over a 3 inch trout. 9cm keep limit is ok with yellow perch but we definitely need stouter regs for brookies


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